Ahhh. feels like opening a fresh ream of paper. Or, if youre a barbarian, the semi-anual bathing rite.
Our castle is destined to have radiant heating.
Its my understanding that it actually is rather cost effective, based on the fact that once the concrete/stone is warmed it takes very little addt'l energy to keep it warm. I havent researched it extensively, but per reports from got-connections, a slab will take a while to heat up but once done will also take a long time to cool off.
Specifics most likely will be available at the con.
Got connections certainly wil be there.
Heating and cooling questions can be addressed.
Scott drinks moat*#@er
Full Version: Heating and Cooling
Did a survey on one of the homeowners that I did a job for.
The guy has been to a few B+B's and a castle or two.
He said that it was intresting to know that there is a ratio / equation thats used when constructing a chimney. Ratio has to do with the size of the opening vs. the height of the chimney. Taller the chimney, the larger the opening around the fire. Said it had to do with proper air flow and so that one doesnt get smoke backflowing into the room.
Moral of the story: There is a physics tech to that one and one can have a large fireplace that doesnt let much smoke inside.
Unfortunately, he couldnt tell me the source of the data. An experienced chimney builder would know. Also recomend "Building your own chimney for dummies"
The guy has been to a few B+B's and a castle or two.
He said that it was intresting to know that there is a ratio / equation thats used when constructing a chimney. Ratio has to do with the size of the opening vs. the height of the chimney. Taller the chimney, the larger the opening around the fire. Said it had to do with proper air flow and so that one doesnt get smoke backflowing into the room.
Moral of the story: There is a physics tech to that one and one can have a large fireplace that doesnt let much smoke inside.
Unfortunately, he couldnt tell me the source of the data. An experienced chimney builder would know. Also recomend "Building your own chimney for dummies"
It's not your chimney size but the pipe with in that counts. The chimney only holds the pipe aloft in a secure fashion.
Most pipe reaching any where from 15 ft to 90 ft is 8 to 10 inch red brick type.
Some of it comes with two sections per brick [][] for use with more then one fire place.
The dampener is the governing source for air draft flow and its size is dependent on the size of the FP.
If you have a good draft out you also every so often have a good draft in depending on wind and other factors, Every so often we get a light smoke coming in due to the wind, but then again during the summer it will blow the doors open on the fire place screen.
The height of the chimney is dependent on several factors, wind conditions, roof height and shape, and how tall is the surrounding structures.
I've seen over 8 foot long x 6 ft deep x 7 ft tall FP's that never leaked smoke in side no matter how high the fire, as long as it was inside the fire place it self and not out of its area
Most pipe reaching any where from 15 ft to 90 ft is 8 to 10 inch red brick type.
Some of it comes with two sections per brick [][] for use with more then one fire place.
The dampener is the governing source for air draft flow and its size is dependent on the size of the FP.
If you have a good draft out you also every so often have a good draft in depending on wind and other factors, Every so often we get a light smoke coming in due to the wind, but then again during the summer it will blow the doors open on the fire place screen.
The height of the chimney is dependent on several factors, wind conditions, roof height and shape, and how tall is the surrounding structures.
I've seen over 8 foot long x 6 ft deep x 7 ft tall FP's that never leaked smoke in side no matter how high the fire, as long as it was inside the fire place it self and not out of its area
You know....its a simple thing really, but I can't wait to have a nice fireplace...I don't mean fancy....I mean a nice simple fireplace.
Are there major complications with having two fireplaces, one on the first floor and one on the second floor share the same chimney? I was thinking of our turret rooms.
No not really, just use different sections of the smoke pipe [1][2] .
I've seen 6 pipes in one chimney and all worked fine.
In castles they used to make the sections out of the rock being used but Í don't like the risk from a chimney fire and the smoke deteriorates lime mortar.
The clay pipe gives insulation between the air gap and the outer wall of the chimney while providing a smooth flow with few or no air/smoke leaks which means a heat loss that can be destructive.
Still kinda on the subject.
In several castles are upper small rooms that had direct vents from the chimney flew.
On or in the floor directly below these chimney vents are a small area that once held charcoal.
Usually an arrow slit or gun loop shows some sort of covering had been attached and around the room walls or ceilings are areas where metal had been embedded.
Its hard to believe there are some experts out there who are baffled by all this, to us it means someone liked smoked meats and food. ( Some veggies are good that way too. )
I told one museum expert he really ought to cook out more or go to Texas for a good bar-b-que, all he could say was "yea they have good cook outs", him still in a daze as we turned to leave then it
hit him and all he could do was looked shocked. sheesh!
Yes there has been times I have had the same look
We have two such areas within small wall chambers planned for our project.
I've seen 6 pipes in one chimney and all worked fine.
In castles they used to make the sections out of the rock being used but Í don't like the risk from a chimney fire and the smoke deteriorates lime mortar.
The clay pipe gives insulation between the air gap and the outer wall of the chimney while providing a smooth flow with few or no air/smoke leaks which means a heat loss that can be destructive.
Still kinda on the subject.
In several castles are upper small rooms that had direct vents from the chimney flew.
On or in the floor directly below these chimney vents are a small area that once held charcoal.
Usually an arrow slit or gun loop shows some sort of covering had been attached and around the room walls or ceilings are areas where metal had been embedded.
Its hard to believe there are some experts out there who are baffled by all this, to us it means someone liked smoked meats and food. ( Some veggies are good that way too. )
I told one museum expert he really ought to cook out more or go to Texas for a good bar-b-que, all he could say was "yea they have good cook outs", him still in a daze as we turned to leave then it
hit him and all he could do was looked shocked. sheesh!Yes there has been times I have had the same look
We have two such areas within small wall chambers planned for our project.
Ok so where in the fire place to you put the C-4 charge?
Not. Neat. Didnt know you knew that kinda stuff. Chimney innards are one of those things that, since they are concealed, can be modern except for the damper and handle, wich people will touch. I dont care what kind of stuff we have - just as long as it works. Just wanted to stresss thats an area where we can go modern andits ok.
Not. Neat. Didnt know you knew that kinda stuff. Chimney innards are one of those things that, since they are concealed, can be modern except for the damper and handle, wich people will touch. I dont care what kind of stuff we have - just as long as it works. Just wanted to stresss thats an area where we can go modern andits ok.
The smoker room idea sounds really good. Scott drinks moat*#@er, that's another small avenue for the bitchin kitchen. House smoked stuff, like...the cheese! Shouldn't be too hard.
Shoots. Yeah. Doesnt seem like that would be too hard. Detail is a good thing.
Isnt there some special wood that should be burned in order to produce correctly smoked foods?
If it were up to me, I woul djust burn the construction debris (pvc pipe, leftover laquer thinner, you know.)
Isnt there some special wood that should be burned in order to produce correctly smoked foods?
If it were up to me, I woul djust burn the construction debris (pvc pipe, leftover laquer thinner, you know.)
Laquer thinner.......Rrrrriiiigggghhhhhttttt.
Yes, there are special woods to burn which are easily locatable. I gotta get on some preliminary cheese manufacturing research to see what that will take. I don't want to go hog wild on that, but I want to make worthwhile too. Like selling special vintage wines, we will have these really bad ass artisan and smoked cheeses. If it goes well, we can expand.
Yes, there are special woods to burn which are easily locatable. I gotta get on some preliminary cheese manufacturing research to see what that will take. I don't want to go hog wild on that, but I want to make worthwhile too. Like selling special vintage wines, we will have these really bad ass artisan and smoked cheeses. If it goes well, we can expand.
Theres a chesse list forum on the net that is really good and helpful.
How do I find it? I'm still technically computer blind. 
THis is the very best one on the net and Meg said to give you this link. She also said to tell you that their are mostly professional people on it which makes it even better.
Cheese Makers List
Cheese Makers List
Tell Meg, Thankee-sai. I can't wait to check it out, but not tonight. If I do, I'll be doomed to net-surfing until 3 am. Gotta get up at 5:30. No can do. ::no-no.gif I'll save it for tomorrow. 
Uncle got-connections is a heating and cooling contractor of 30 years.
I may have posted this earlier - but in case not, just wanted to throw out there that as he's had experience in all common types of heating and cooling as well as some experience in specialty systems, you would be available to pick his brain for stuff at the con'. Actually, all you have to do is get him started - he likes to talk - the hardest part is leaving when you need to leave.
But he passes my own acid test when it comes to tradesmen:
He is the guy that I want to do the job on my place. And its got nothing to do with the fact that I would probably get a discount or barter deal.
There arent too many people who I will say that for openly and not have reservations about it.
I may have posted this earlier - but in case not, just wanted to throw out there that as he's had experience in all common types of heating and cooling as well as some experience in specialty systems, you would be available to pick his brain for stuff at the con'. Actually, all you have to do is get him started - he likes to talk - the hardest part is leaving when you need to leave.
But he passes my own acid test when it comes to tradesmen:
He is the guy that I want to do the job on my place. And its got nothing to do with the fact that I would probably get a discount or barter deal.
There arent too many people who I will say that for openly and not have reservations about it.
Got a question about cooling....I thought I read radiant heating also cools.....yes/no? How are you designing for hot weather comfort without traditional A/C?
I dont understand the process well enough to explain it in understandable terms. Duncan might know. My Uncle would know.
I know you can alter the temp in either direction. How effective it is at cooling I dont know.
I plan on having concealed central a/c for most of the buildings. Im not sure on the guest towers - probably they would have their own a/c units(s) that operate independant from eachother.
I dont think that a radiant heating system could effectively cool a room. I say that because its pipes with water in the floor, right? And so the idea is pump warm/hot water through the fllor that heats the concrete. Heat rises. So the question, I suppose, is how does a cool floor take heat out of the room above knee level?
I know you can alter the temp in either direction. How effective it is at cooling I dont know.
I plan on having concealed central a/c for most of the buildings. Im not sure on the guest towers - probably they would have their own a/c units(s) that operate independant from eachother.
I dont think that a radiant heating system could effectively cool a room. I say that because its pipes with water in the floor, right? And so the idea is pump warm/hot water through the fllor that heats the concrete. Heat rises. So the question, I suppose, is how does a cool floor take heat out of the room above knee level?
I thought I read....def admit to being way off here....that because the water is circulating that the water heats to room temp and therefore the "Heat" gets circulated out...not sure it acts like A/C but it makes the room comfortable...like I said...I THINK I read that somewhere....I am def interested in how you hide your A/C.
I've read about a chiller being put on a system with some type of coolant instead of the alcohol water mix.
In our place its a matter of heating and not so much the cooling that matters when you factor in 8 foot thick walls, even in the hot summer Meg is complaining she will need a sweater.
One of my first thoughts on hiding stuff like that was by a method used in large buildings today. Small rooms in the domestic areas with a out side wall for ventilation.
Most larger motels and hotels use something similar.
In our place its a matter of heating and not so much the cooling that matters when you factor in 8 foot thick walls, even in the hot summer Meg is complaining she will need a sweater.
One of my first thoughts on hiding stuff like that was by a method used in large buildings today. Small rooms in the domestic areas with a out side wall for ventilation.
Most larger motels and hotels use something similar.
Ive had similar thoughts to Duncan. Attatched are a few ways it could be done.
Usually, that type of duct work is run in the attic of a home. In Commercial buildings its done above the drop ceiling and below the concrete floor above.
One thought (at least for my place) is that as its going to be large, there will be ample space enough to afford the construction of interior partition walls that could be specificaly made to hide modern home systems like a/c.
Ive only thought a little about hiding duct work. Its something to consider, though, because open-beam ceilings arent duct-friendly.
One of the reasons that I favored contructing the frame out of modern materiels and methods and then veneering it was that its easy and simple (well, simpler) to run utilities either within the walls or between walls - theres space that can be made.
This is one of those topics where I know down the road Ill be sketching different ideas and then banging my head on the table because - "well, if we do that then this part is harder... and then if we go this other way then that makes it hard to do this other thing..." Round and round.
the best I can come up with so far is to run the stuff in the places in my sketchings. I cant put it on the roof - what a degrade!. There might be some roofs though, that arent accessable by anyone except maintenance personell - thats a big maybe - but something could go there -... then again, probably not.
Usually, that type of duct work is run in the attic of a home. In Commercial buildings its done above the drop ceiling and below the concrete floor above.
One thought (at least for my place) is that as its going to be large, there will be ample space enough to afford the construction of interior partition walls that could be specificaly made to hide modern home systems like a/c.
Ive only thought a little about hiding duct work. Its something to consider, though, because open-beam ceilings arent duct-friendly.
One of the reasons that I favored contructing the frame out of modern materiels and methods and then veneering it was that its easy and simple (well, simpler) to run utilities either within the walls or between walls - theres space that can be made.
This is one of those topics where I know down the road Ill be sketching different ideas and then banging my head on the table because - "well, if we do that then this part is harder... and then if we go this other way then that makes it hard to do this other thing..." Round and round.
the best I can come up with so far is to run the stuff in the places in my sketchings. I cant put it on the roof - what a degrade!. There might be some roofs though, that arent accessable by anyone except maintenance personell - thats a big maybe - but something could go there -... then again, probably not.
The idea of the side or concealed room looks decent. In fact, the turrets each could have a vertical "tower" bult adjacent to it that runs from ground to top, concealing air-duct, and even perhaps plumbing and electric as well...a utility tower for each. At the bottom they could somehow be connected to the main lines behind stone veneered flashing that perhaps runs along the curtain wall base or something like that with grates every so often for maintenence usage? Just brainstorming here. Another idea may be to somehow use the chimney flues for A/C ventilation, and have shut off valves for summer/winter use of either fire place or air-con? I have no idea if that is possible or not, but hey, simplicity is always my favorite. Are there other, natural ways to keep the place cool in summer and warm in winter? 
I like your ideas too.
In modern sky scrapers you have wind tunnels or vertical halls as some call them to carry fresh air into the building. Then chillers take the air that fans deliver and cool it even more.
Your right towers are a good idea and even have a bases in history.
When many castles were renovated the smaller battle stair turrets were used to carry the utility's.
In modern sky scrapers you have wind tunnels or vertical halls as some call them to carry fresh air into the building. Then chillers take the air that fans deliver and cool it even more.
Your right towers are a good idea and even have a bases in history.
When many castles were renovated the smaller battle stair turrets were used to carry the utility's.
There is an additional reason why this would be a good idea:
Making the roof line more complex adds characther. A simple box with no trimmings is a bit to plain.
I have a great photo but its at Cleave's place. Damn. Ok - so to plain is just too plain. Gatta have some "layers", some charachter, some complexity.
Adding additional towers (tower-ettes?) whatever they are - thats the way to go because it adds to the aestetic value.
Making the roof line more complex adds characther. A simple box with no trimmings is a bit to plain.
I have a great photo but its at Cleave's place. Damn. Ok - so to plain is just too plain. Gatta have some "layers", some charachter, some complexity.
Adding additional towers (tower-ettes?) whatever they are - thats the way to go because it adds to the aestetic value.
Wow. I said something smart in the construction feild. A first. Well, glad you guys think it may be workable. Can plumbing, electric and air-con all go into it? Still need to run the electric around the rooms, but that is easy, as far as I know. I figured the turret bathrooms would be located on the side by the utility "towerettes"for ease of construction. Scott drinks moat*#@er or Duncan...is insulation enough to keep the rooms cool in summer or is A/C a total necessity? What about hidden fans without A/C coolant and ducts and all that?
Technical explaination: HOW ABOUT NO!!!
Hey Scott drinks moat*#@er....some advice from your mother....ok...sister castle builder...play nice with Steve....he has the power to make you homeless..... 
Tomorrow morning I think I can add few things to the above but right now I'm too sleepy and tired to write. see ya
Well, I guess that answers that. Actually, it would be to the detriment of the con if I didn't let Scott drinks moat*#@er stay here. We've barely had time in the last weeks to do any planning for it. As of tonight, we are making a pact to do little else BUT planning for this monster of ours. Good things ahead, I assure you all. 
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